Discussion+about+Class+Sizes

code interested to see the notes from Wed [in WGTN] and any other subset groups on the discussion of class size et al i think it has to be reflective of the teacher and should be supported well onlne - think also we need to remember that like all aspects of professional learning teachers are on a continuum and shifting them along in a way that supports and encourages them is crucial over all we need to ensure that actually the students are getting the full benefit of their VLN course
 * COMMENTS FROM VICKI SMITH - EPRINCIPAL (WESTNET) - 29/5/2009**

this means that they are FULLY supported in their schools [they can access the gear for their lessons, they have email and interent access and that they are aided to be good distance students by means of support to use and explore online environments - and that they interact positively with their teachers [and that in their schools they have someone supporting them to do all this]

Team teaching sounds very appealing (eg. there could be a general subject site where students ask questions and teachers from various schools get rostered per day to go in and check, help etc.) Also developing and sharing material in subject areas would be great. (Sharing with VC schools but also sharing with subject teachers in other schools, subject organizations etc.). When I see how much it costs to develop a full TCS course, I often think would it not be great if either it is written collaboratively or if other schools pay a bit of the costs and in return are allowed to use the material for free (my own dreaming, not sure what the policies around that would be...).
 * COMMENTS FROM INKA HELWIG - E-TEACHER & TCS**

I also agree that having more than 12 students is probably okay if it is from a limited number of sites. More teacher workload of course when it comes to assessment marking, but that's the same for f2f teachers anyway.

With the online environment I have found in my German VC courses, that students often respond better to emails from me than going into the shared Blackboard environment. (A nuisance for me as email is more work...) Sometimes it is because of technology issues, sometimes it is seen as homework and the kids are too lazy but I also feel we eteachers would need really good PD on how to kick off and even more important how to maintain the momentum of participation in online environments.

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code COMMENTS FROM CAROLYN BENNETT - eTEACHER & E-PRINCIPAL (FARNET) code I have 13 students and just taken on another one. I totally agree with you that it has its advantages that you can get students working together and it makes it easier when you have two or three from the same school because you can get them working ona particular question/task and get them to feed back to the rest of the class. It definetly is not an ideal situation to just talk and teach, I probably use it more as a tutorial and feedback from questions I have submitted during the week. The online environment needs to be established, and the teacher needs to develop strategies right from the beginning to encourage students working in their online classroom. This aids in developing the relationships in the classroom and the trust which needs to be present in order to provide a safe environment for students to collaborate and share. This takes alot of thinking about and creating opportunities. I have worked really hard in developing these online relationships, not only between myself and the students, but between the students. It is a great deal of work, but if you do the initial work, including ensuring that you have a student-centred online environment, then you start reaping the benefits and seeing that alot of the learning is taking place in that online environment and the VC is just an added bonus. That is my experience this year. Without the online environment though, I can't imagine how you could manage delivering a curriculum to a large group of students. I was teaching a unit on GST this week and got a local farmer in to speak with the students for half an hour, or rather they asked questions of him and it was great. I can see how we could use different teachers for different parts of a course, where specialisation comes in, like Darren feeling rusty on a particular topic, he could have someone else deliver that part etc. I think we need to spend a great more time on developing the pedagogy with our e-teachers, from my own teaching experience last year, I feel I have developed better strategies this year, and it is mainly because I have experienced being an e-student myself. I believe we need to be looking at a blended model, which includes a range of synchronous and asynchronous teaching, with an emphasis on developing those relationships. The web 2.0 tools are there for us to use in this environment and we must have our e-teachers doing so. I am doing two papers through Canterbury, one which is using an online environment which encourages us to collaborate and share ideas, critique others etc, the other paper I get no prompting to visit the site, to hand in any work or receive regular contact with the tutor. This paper I am struggling with. I am sorry to say, but it is a joke to have models being delivered on the VLN where students are being asked to photocopy and fax their work to their teachers on a daily basis. I have just had to explain this to a parent. The most difficult thing I have experienced this year is the delay in students having email access through a school email address. I have got around most difficulties about students being able to access youtube, TVondemand, as most have got access to the internet at home, however I just got told today by a student that when they open powerpoints (which I use a great deal of) it crashes his school computer. Another phone call to that school tomorrow! Hope this assists others and provides some information about the reasons why I don't think that the class sizes should increase without the course providing a blended environment and PD support for the e-teacher. This is a new environment for all of us, and I know that all of us assist our e-teachers well, but wouldn't it be great if we had someone like Derek to mentor some of our e-teachers, because as we all know, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE DON'T KNOW and some of these e-teachers were the early adopters, but things have changed now, with new web 2.0 tools being available, they also struggle so we need to assist them. How many of our e-teachers get an opportunity to attend ULearn09? They are the ones that need to go. Just some thoughts ...... COMMENTS FROM DARREN SUDLOW: I agree Carolyn. My course works in a very similar way. Established online environments and a pedagogy that is learner centred and collaborative will take the burden off the teacher. Obviously teachers will need substantial PL on this before increasing class size. Certainly achievable in the near future though.

Numbers are not over 12 in any Coronet classes - 12-15 from one school I would image would be much easier to work with in a VC lesson than 6 from 6 individual schools - now this is a real juggling act for the eteacher. How many of our schools have purpose built rooms that accommodate more that 6 students? What should we be discussing here - numbers, connections or venue? Hello Jan, in reply to your question about whether we are discussing class sizes, sites or venue, I think it is about discussing all of it, because I think depending on "the mix", then the way the class is delivered online can also differ. Last year I had 5 students from 5 sites and this year I have 14 from 8 sites and if I was delivering the 5/5 again, I would do it differently from what I now know. As you know, one of my schools is buying a teacher from your cluster and there are 11 in that class and the teacher runs it very efficiently and uses a LMS to support their learning and it works very well, but without that online enviornment I don't think it would. In this situation there is also a support teacher there to assist, we have 20 agriculture students in Telford classes and also have a tutor with them as well so they can follow on with the work. So, what I think we need to be discussing is the importance of finding what fits best for whatever model we have. I wouldn't like to be told that I could only have 5 sites and then only 5 students, but I don't want to be told that I need 20 students in an online class either, I actually think that is too many. For me I think we simply need to be sharing our experiences and assisting e-teachers in finding what works for their situation. I think the idea of having a "buddy or mentor" to assist an e-teacher in their online environment would be very valuable. The course I am doing requires us to look at each other's online sites and critique them. This has been really valuable. I am putting all of the comments around this discussion in our VLN wiki so when people have time and the time is right for further discussion, all the comments can be drawn on, so please keep adding your ideas and I will post them in the wiki.
 * COMMENTS FROM JAN COLLIER - ePrincipal - CoroNet - 28/5/2009**
 * COMMENTS FROM CAROLYN BENNETT - eTeacher & ePrincipal (FarNet) - 28.5/09**